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  #1  
Old 08-19-2010, 07:44 AM
synthmann synthmann is offline
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Hi folks,

i've been reading the yahoo group back in the days when using numerology 1.4 but after my G4 iBook went a bit belly-up (kernel panics every now and then, HD making much noise but never really crashing, Disk utility saying everything is fine one day and finding problems the next) I couldn't use Numerology anymore since my main music computer has always been a windows one running Sonar.

but this weekend I'll finally (by now it's so old I dare to take this risk) be installing a new 5400 rpm drive into the ibook with the ifixit guide (i hope i don't screw it up) and firmly putting in place the airport card, hoping this will bring new life to the machine and with help of an external monitor I hope to do a lot of midi-sequencing with numerology again. If I get the iBook up and running again I'll be sure to get the upgrade to num3 pro. it's a 1.2 ghz machine with the max ram of 1.25gb so should handle midi stuff pretty well I guess.

musical interests range from Jean-Michel Jarre to Kraftwerk, Der Dritte Raum, Junior Boys, Empire of the sun, to George Michael, Duran Duran, Depeche mode and other 80ies classics.

So although I already have a Num license for several years, I haven't gotten around to using it as much as I would and hopefully this changes over the weekend! I'm also a happy iPad owner and would love to be able to use it's tactile interface to control Num3 or even run a dedicated Numerology app on.

cheers!

Last edited by synthmann; 08-19-2010 at 07:52 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2010, 01:24 PM
Sjoerd Sjoerd is offline
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Welkom (terug), gezellig!

Btw: hackint0shing another partition on the windows machine may also be an option. I have N2/3 working just fine on an ancient (2005, bought as Windows) PC too.
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  #3  
Old 08-19-2010, 02:01 PM
baltimoroder baltimoroder is offline
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Numerology runs great on older machines. IMO, save yourself the iHeadache and get a Novation Launchpad instead... it's a LOT more fun than simply running a generic remote display.

Also <3 Junior Boys too.
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  #4  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:49 PM
jim jim is offline
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The G4 should be just fine for MIDI -- though when you re-install, I do recommend using OS X 10.5 (Leopard) if you can --- I see less "weird cocoa stuff" on Leopard than Tiger.

Cheers,
Jim
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  #5  
Old 08-20-2010, 04:02 AM
synthmann synthmann is offline
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thanks for the warm welcome and the advice folks!

i've looked in to hackint0shing one of my pc's (have an old P4 at 3 ghz and a newer Q6600) before but concluded it would probably take me a weekend to get in running smoothly (if not longer) and forgot about it.

the launchpad looks fun indeed but I always considered it more a a thing for ableton users. I'd love to control the numerology sequences with a controller that has 16 knobs so I can just dial in my sequences in old analog style. Don't know if that's possible. would a behringer BCR be able to do that? or even the 16 dials on my Emu XL7?

about tiger vs leopard on a G4, ive read so many different user experiences with that, but if numerology prefers leopard id sure like to try that. Then id just need to get hold of an official tiger to leopard upgrade and i guess thats not easy anymore? will check with the local apple store.

well at least i bought the necessary phillips 00 and torx t8 screwdrivers yesterday so i'm all set to go if the HD arrives in the mail today or tomorrow! I'll be sure to post an update here when it's done.
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2010, 09:07 AM
Sjoerd Sjoerd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthmann View Post
i've looked in to hackint0shing one of my pc's (have an old P4 at 3 ghz and a newer Q6600) before but concluded it would probably take me a weekend to get in running smoothly (if not longer) and forgot about it.
Mine is an old Pentium (Prescott 640) as well. So I guess that should not have to be a major stumbling block. Next most important question would be what motherboard you have, and what chipset it has (e.g. for onboard video, audio). Most other stuff is less important as it can more easily be replaced (e.g. getting another ethernet card). Finding out which (modded) kernel(s) work for your setup is usually the crucial bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synthmann View Post
I'd love to control the numerology sequences with a controller that has 16 knobs so I can just dial in my sequences in old analog style. Don't know if that's possible. would a behringer BCR be able to do that?
Yes, perfectly well, and then some.

It works especially great with the 'Parameter Reflect Learned MIDI CC#s' option activated (available in Preferences > Advanced), which makes controllers such as the BCR-2000 update their values (in this case, using LEDs) whenever you change the associated parameter in Numerology.

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or even the 16 dials on my Emu XL7?
If they send out MIDI CC#, as I assume they would, yes.

Success with the HD replacement.
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  #7  
Old 08-22-2010, 05:14 AM
blurk blurk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synthmann View Post
Then id just need to get hold of an official tiger to leopard upgrade and i guess thats not easy anymore?
As far as I am aware, getting any form of retail Leopard is pretty much impossible, at least from Apple stores. You might find a used copy on eBay. And that's the full retail copy; I think the Tiger -> Leopard upgrade is even less likely. Otherwise, I would have upgraded my Tiger machine a while ago.

I'm starting to run into more and more software that won't run on Tiger (like the latest Audio Damage stuff, even the beta of the Numerology AU; I haven't tried N3 yet). It's a bit annoying that Apple doesn't provide a reasonable upgrade from Tiger -> Snow Leopard. Not only do you have to buy a full retail version, you can only get it in a bundle with a bucketload of other software I don't want or need (iLife or whatever).

Though I'm wondering if subscribing to the Apple Developer program would provide me with a legal copy of Snow Leopard.
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Old 08-22-2010, 07:12 AM
Sjoerd Sjoerd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blurk View Post
As far as I am aware, getting any form of retail Leopard is pretty much impossible, at least from Apple stores.
Hmm... the other day, a friend of mine bought Leopard from an 'officially authorized' (whatever that cartelloid quasi-exclusive licensing scheme really amounts to) Apple retailer for (I think) EUR 95 to update his ancient G5 system (which they did for him). I don't know if they gave him a DVD though, but I'd presume so.

Also, afaik it's a technical issue rather than a marketing issue: they simply dropped PPC support for Snow Leopard (and imho there are valid reasons for doing so, but that's another discussion), so if your (old) Mac has a PPC chip, forget about it. I don't think any Apple developer program can help you out there, you'll have to get a Intel CPU based system -- for as long as it takes before Apple will drop Intel support as well and starts to (exclusively) use their own chips (cf. their homegrown A4 CPU in their most recent mobile devices).

So I would guess that Apple (Stores, authorized retailers) would still sell Leopard to people with PPC Macs, at least if you explicitly tell them you have a PPC system, no?

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Originally Posted by blurk View Post
It's a bit annoying that Apple doesn't provide a reasonable upgrade from Tiger -> Snow Leopard. Not only do you have to buy a full retail version, you can only get it in a bundle with a bucketload of other software I don't want or need (iLife or whatever).
I think the differential pricing for 10.4 vs. 10.5 upgrades has to do more with the fact that 10.6 is really more of a 64 bit rewrite of 10.5 than a real major revision, for a very reasonable (i.e. low) incremental price over 10.5 ($29 is seriously not a lot for individual end-user pricing for an entire OS). In fact, to me one of the best features seems to be having removed ~6 GB of PPC code that Intel Macs have no need for.

Fwiw, the upgrade DVD (which I got 'free' but for the ridiculous 'postage' costs of EUR 8.95, now that was a shameless rip-off. ) seems to work fine as a full install on a blank system (a friend used it to revive a 2008 MBP after completely wiping its internal HDD).

Also, bundling is a fact of life with information goods. They are in no way doing it in a way that would raise any eyebrows at antitrust regulators (cf. Microsoft's historic bundling practices of browsers, media players, etc. in the OS), and it is pretty easy to avoid or remove. I'm seriously just as annoyed by 'having to' remove (imho) redundant icons on the Dock (System Preferences, Time Machine, Front Row) after a fresh install as by 'having to' remove (or hide) any apps installed by default that I don't want.
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  #9  
Old 08-22-2010, 07:38 AM
blurk blurk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjoerd View Post
Hmm... the other day, a friend of mine bought Leopard from an 'officially authorized' (whatever that cartelloid quasi-exclusive licensing scheme really amounts to) Apple retailer for (I think) EUR 95 to update his ancient G5 system (which they did for him). I don't know if they gave him a DVD though, but I'd presume so.
Interesting. I guess I'm just going by what the Apple store advertises as for sale online. Maybe I should just go to an Apple retailer and ask.

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Originally Posted by Sjoerd View Post
[...]so if your (old) Mac has a PPC chip, forget about it.
No, my Tiger machine is a 2nd gen MacBook Pro. I just never thought to get a Leopard upgrade when it came out, and when Apple release Snow Leopard, it was all too late.

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Originally Posted by Sjoerd View Post
I don't think any Apple developer program can help you out there, you'll have to get a Intel CPU based system
I was referring to the developer seed releases. When my old old job subscribed to the Apple Developer Program, I got betas of the then-new OS X. I gather the current developer program offers similar features, I just don't know if that includes current-release OS versions (a la Microsoft's MSDN) or whether it is strictly pre-releases only. I'd consider that, because I am currently doing a small amount of OS X development and this would be a cost-effective option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjoerd View Post
So I would guess that Apple (Stores, authorized retailers) would still sell Leopard to people with PPC Macs, at least if you explicitly tell them you have a PPC system, no?
But again, I don't have a PPC system so I suspect they'll tell me to go jump and buy the iLife+Snow Leopard package. Might be a viable approach for the OP, though, so I stand corrected on that front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjoerd View Post
Also, bundling is a fact of life with information goods. [...] I'm seriously just as annoyed by 'having to' remove (imho) redundant icons on the Dock (System Preferences, Time Machine, Front Row) after a fresh install as by 'having to' remove (or hide) any apps installed by default that I don't want.
Sure, bundling is a fact of life, and sure I don't have to install everything in the package. But I reserve the right to be annoyed to pay probably twice the price that I would for just the OS on its own.
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  #10  
Old 08-22-2010, 12:56 PM
jim jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blurk View Post
Though I'm wondering if subscribing to the Apple Developer program would provide me with a legal copy of Snow Leopard.
Bingo! And every major OS release going back at least to 10.3, plus access to tons of developer videos -- most of which is pretty boring, but often useful for non-developers. For instance, those vids are pretty much the only way to learn how to use Quartz Composer. All that used to be $500 (admittedly w/ a handy hardware discount), but now it's only $100.

Cheers,
Jim
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